This is no April 26th’s fools. And I am not too proud to ask for some help right now.
AND HEAR ME CLEAR: I am writing this not to bash anyone. I am writing it in desperation that God will have his way and move in the hearts of his people. This happened 19 days ago, and I and our family and team who moved here have sat on this to make sure I wrote out of a pure heart and with proper motives. [And no, I won't release the name of the group who did this...sorry!]
So yes, a very-long 19 days ago I lost $280K in funding [that's most of our funding to this point...we just sent out our individual support packets this week...] for doing our Beer and Bible ministry [bible study and 2 beer...3.2% at that...limit] and for actually sipping on 1/2 of a beer. There is no other back-story. I did nothing wrong. It was not my 3rd strike. It wasn’t even my first strike. I have been a good planter with a clean record. Part of that funding was also for THE STICKS [the ministry we engage in to those in small towns and hard to reach places.]
We simply went to where the people were and shared His Word. I was given permission by my boss to do this ministry [his hands were tied as they took all power from him in this he explained to me...], that is why we are dumbfounded over this. And yes, I did drink 1/2 of a beer [3.2 beer at that], which seemed to be the “seal the deal” reason for termination.
As many of you know, I don’t even like to drink much at all, so this is very ironic to those who know me well. I even sent a letter of apology for not recognizing that this would be an issue, asked for forgiveness and said I would not drink again if that would suffice, and I meant it. And again, I had permission to engage in this.
Not that I believe drinking per se is “wrong” but I was not going to die on that hill [and if that was such a strong issue for them, I would easily comply]. No way is that something for me to fight the status quo about since I could care less about having regular drinks [my father was an alcoholic pre-Christ, so I am already on edge with the issue]. If I was told that I could not go back into this pub and do ministry, that would have been a different issue.
The worst part is that I have not received 1 phone call, 1 e-mail, 1 letter from the decision making group, whomever that was, outside of my boss who delivered the news. They read the national article on our ministry, and then within a matter of about 3 days of back door conversations and e-mails, I was fired. The letter of apology fell on deaf ears it seems without any conversation.
The other sad part is that I had to use my contract wording or I would have been in deep trouble as the contract states they have to give me 60 days notice of separation. So yes, in about 6 weeks, without us both finding miracle jobs, we are in a world of hurt.
So yes, I, our family, and the families that moved across country were just going to be dumped high and dry, had it not been for that provision. Our family and team feels as if we were stranded in the middle of Utah 5 months pre-launch, because…well…we were.
Some have asked me to clarify that this group did not move us to Utah. I was recruited to this new group after we were already here on the ground. But this group is and was our main source of support once we joined their team. My boss recruited me out of another denomination, which was our teams decision, and this new group became our lifeblood.
So why do I say all of this? It’s pretty simple. WE NEED YOUR PRAYERS AND SUPPORT desperately.
Would you help us make connections to those who want to reach 25 cities without 1 church in them? We have to make up some serious funding in the next 5 months or we will not be launching. Not to mention that in 6 weeks I have no salary at all and making up my salary in the costly west region we are in is pretty tough.
Might I come to your church and present the desperate need for church planting in Utah? Do you have connections with donors? Do you have other pastors friends and leaders you might contact on our behalf to help fund this mission or allow myself to come and present the need?
I am making a plea to the body of Christ to rise up and to help us answer the call to the 25 cities without light in this place that we have grown to love with all of our hearts. Ministry here is so tough, so rocky, so other-worldly, that it in itself is a full-time challenge. But losing all of your funding is a completely different assault from the pit of hell itself. Satan is ticked that we are here. The battle is full-on, and this is only a small part of the story that has led us here.
Thank you for your prayers and your action. Words can’t express my thanks in advance for how many of you will step up for us. Satan will not win, our GOD REIGNS!
I post a picture of my family just so you know that we are a real family with real needs. We were called as a family, and we are in this to win it, and we won’t give up. We will fight as a family and as a team to the bitter end.
And YES, your e-mails, tweets, and calls of support will be greatly appreciated…but we need everyone to step up in a big way with their resources and influence as well…so thank you for taking action in a tangible way.
25 cities without 1 non-LDS church [and btw: we love our LDS friends and neighbors, so no offense to them with that comment] need the love of Jesus. Our family and our team who moved to Utah left everything in obedience to move here and accomplish this mission. We hold our heads high and push on in victory!
My contact info: [chazzdaddy17@gmail.com] and go to: www.missionwest.tv to donate.
Charles, Tiffany, Christian, Grace and Joi.
Sounds just like a attack from Satan, and God will indeed come forth and put this work according to His will. Although I have no means to help financially, I will take extra time to pray about it. Our life is being bombarded heavy from Satan also. In all my years of walking with Christ, this seems to be the heaviest, this last couple years. And I have been around a while! It seems the war is intensifying as satan realizes his time is getting very short!
Sorry to hear of people’s short sightedness. I hope and pray you will find another opportunity to continue expanding God’s kingdom. I must say I find it completely hypocritical of people who feel so strongly about alcohol. I want to remind them of Jesus’ first miracle and where and WHY it was done. Guess they easily forget water into wine at a party where they ran out. Gotta meet people where they are. Wonder what those same people would say about the guy from XXX church that is changing the lives of many people by going where they are.
Let me know how we can help. And I am serious! I don’t even know what to say about this!
Sounds like you may have an issue with a lack of common sense. Your poor decision was just that…YOUR decision. I can’t believe you are whining about it. What’s next? Open bar in the foyer at church. The church should welcome all. The church should not become all. Anyone not willing to take a moment or two to read the bible without an alcoholic beverage in hand is not ready to change. They need to have a Christian life modeled for them in an appealing way. Not a life compromised by a sinful world. I am sorry, but to be a Christian you must change sinful factors in your life. You can’t live in both worlds and I think a beer sipping Bible study is sending the message that change in habit is not necessary. Maybe you could start a movie/bible study night and watch some porn.(Hopefully you think that is an absurd suggestion or you have less sense than I thought)
@Nathan so we shouldn’t try to reach people where they are? Where did Christ go to minister to people? I don’t reply to this to get in a theological battle with you but Paul in 2 Cor said he became all things to all men so that he may save some. There is no sin issue here, and I believe we should be going and doing everything we can short of sin to reach the lost. I know this man’s heart as much as another man can and I know he will continue to do everything he can short of sin to reach people.
NF: You assume that when that the church is a place and not a verb. We are to be the Church, the Bride of Chris at all times, in all places, for all people.
Do we condone the excessive drinking that prevalent in today’s culture? No. And by no means should we condone the adult entertainment industry.
Does that mean we shouldn’t reach out to those in that industry and meet their physical, emotional and spiritual needs? Heaven no!
If Christians are always stuck in churches then how can the irreligious in the bars and on the streets see the difference that knowing Christ makes in our Christian lives?
I think your comment is hurtful, hateful, ignorant, and thoroughly unChristian. His boss KNEW what kind of Bible study he had planned. He had ‘coverage’. THEY are being pharisaical hypocrites.
Jesus turned water into wine at a wedding as His first miracle. Do do you think he was sitting under a fig tree just WATCHING the celebration or do you this, wine glass in hand, he was joining the celebration? Do you think he sat on the sidelines, or join in the wedding dance. Reading the scriptures do you get the impression that Jesus was a ‘holier than thou’ or a ‘I love thou, let’s talk’ kind of Messiah. I believe the latter
@Nathan –
Show me in the Book where it says, “thou shalt not consume alcohol”.
It doesn’t.
This hits home for me. I am a recovered alcoholic/addict. If no one had taken the time to minister to me right where I was at I would be dead; literaly. The bible says He came for the sick, and I was. And people who love Jesus loved me until I beleived and was well – and they keep loving me! I am not saying that everyone who drinks is sick or an alcoholic. What I am saying is that if we are following Christ and following His commandments we must go to the sick and be with them, even eat and drink with the sinners and tax collectors just like Jesus did. I don’t know what I can do but I can pray, and I can tell my church about my friend that is following the will of Jesus and that there is a need. So can all of us. God Bless Charles; I’m praying hard!
Nathan, Your comments are nothing but insensitive, hurtful, and hardly godly toward a godly man who’s simply sharing what on his heart. Shame on you. There’s nothing in Scripture to back up your hateful legalism.
We’re planting churches in Thailand… And I actually enjoy beer… We’re praying for you and your family. God’s plans are GOOD… Sometimes, like now, we just can’t understand them…
“It’s worth noting that Jesus didn’t condemn bad people. he comdemned “stiff” people. We condemn the bad ones and affirm the stiff ones. Whether it is prostitute or a tax collector or an outcast, . . . Jesus reached out to them. It was a motley crew of riffraff that followed him around, and it never embrrassed Him or made Him feel uncomfortable. One of the most radical statements Jesus ever made is found in Matt. 9:12-13 “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ for I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” Steve Brown
Nathan, Your comments are nothing but insensitive, hurtful, and hardly godly toward a godly man who’s simply sharing what on his heart. Shame on you. There’s nothing in Scripture to back up your hateful legalism.
Charles, I am praying for you, your family, and your team. It’s great to see your faith in spite of what happened. Blessings, brother.
Great post yo. Got your back.
I remember searching for a place to belong within a church. I came acrossed one church that told me, my catholic ancestors would burn in the pits of hell… another who told me that my husband HAD to attend, and another that told me that having the occasional Margarita every few months was a sin. I felt lost, until I found New Hope.. a church that I watched with my own two eyes, heal those with addictions, bad marriages and financial crisis. I saw people I never would have imagined step up and accept Christ as their savior.
Your way of teaching is unique as you don’t try to compare yourself to God, you just teach the way he would have if he were here right now…
I wish there was something I could do to help… but all I can do is pray.
Sorry for your situation. I do hope for the best for you and your family. I need to ask because your comment intrigues me:
Are LDS Churches without the love of Jesus?
I think it’s great that you’re working hard, with your family, to a cause that’s so personal to your life. Good luck and God bless you in your efforts.
God is bringing you to the next level, bro. You’re in my prayers. Please don’t leave the area.
Greetings from beer-country, Germany
Danny
Mr Chazzdaddy17 fellow, I am so glad to hear your hearts desire to reach the few lost in a Utah pub. It warms my heart to hear the rest of you say we are to reach the sick. Absolutely! However, if you can’t face the fact that Nathan is right, you need to go back to your bible. We are to enter those places as different from the sick, lost, and hurt of this world. We are to show ourselves as separate from the world: “Be holy, because I am holy.” How can we argue for Jesus as Truth, Life and The Way, when they think they see us acting hypocritically? I saw you on the news recently; I never heard you talk about the nature of sin, repentance, and faith and trust in Jesus alone for salvation and the forgiveness of sin. You talked about relevance and acceptance–which is NOT the gospel! “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.” THAT is the gospel. It’s not drinking the beer that is at issue. It’s being a representative of THE KING that matters. Who are you doing this for? Relevancy? To Whom? The world? God’s relevancy means you are to be different from the world. While I never want to see people unjustly fired, as apparently you were, could you have served in another capacity? I am a born and raised Utahn, within the Lutheran church and born again in my early 20′s back in the early 90′s. Utah is not some hole in the world. It is the world. It’s the most vast and fertile area in the United States to plant spiritual seeds. There are closer families in the Mormon church here, then in the bastions of the born again across the U.S. God loves these people too (he died for them after all). Find another ministry! There are so many more lost souls here that don’t drink and don’t know the gospel than the few you may find in pubs. Love the people here and be a light! Trust God. I say this in love brother and I hope and pray you will find a way to serve here. Utah needs Jesus, you and as many harvesters as we can find!
So Mark, do we just forget about the few souls that we may find in the pubs? Sure why not… they don’t deserve to have the Gospel in those places of iniquity do they? Matthew 9: 10-13
How is it hypocritical to bring the Word of God into a place where it is needed, have a bible study and invite others to hear and learn about Jesus? Maybe, if we were drunk whilst doing so, but that is far from the case.
I would say that it’s hypocritical for a person to assume that they have the power to judge what someones ministry should or shouldn’t be. Maybe we should leave that to God, I believe that’s part of His job description.
Maybe Nathan need so go back to his bible, because the way I read it, in order to be a Christian you have to accept Christ as Lord and Savior. Then through the Spirit there is conviction of our sins or “habits in our lives that need to be changed”. So tell me, how can they accept Christ if they don’t hear about Him, and how will they hear if no one is sent? I’m sure you know this scripture.
As for Mr Chazzdaddy17 fellow, I think he’s doing what he’s called to do. It doesn’t say in the bible to; Go into all the world and convert the Mormons; it says to seek the lost.
I think Nathan is a bot. He shows up on lots of blogs, always with the same message and legalistic tone.
Ok Ramone, that is fair. The people in the pubs need to hear the message just as everyone else does. But tell me, if I have a bible study, in a pub, how does that save the lost? A study is for the edifying of the saints, the lost typically don’t understand it. Paul said that “…the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.” We both agree that some may be saved by hearing the occasional word being taught to those who know Jesus. However, might I suggest that you may serve equally well without a beer or being drunk and addressing the gospel specifically, for “it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes”. The bible, being true front to back, “is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work”. So why does it seem so many of us are ashamed of talking directly about sin, repentance, faith and trust in Jesus alone for salvation and forgiveness of sin? Sin is the problem, not beer, not acceptance, not loneliness, not the way we think or feel or act. We must be different from the world. We must be. That includes how we speak and what we choose to say, what we are passionate about, and how we act: spirit, mind, heart, and strength.
Now, as for the Mormons and the pub crowd, here’s a fact of life in Utah that outsiders just don’t understand. If they are not practicing Mormons then they are ex-Mormons. A strange thing happens, they may criticize and complain and condemn the Mormon church, and drink heavily while doing it. They will sleep with who ever they can, and smoke whatever they feel like and you will sit with them in that very pub. The problem most people face when witnessing in Utah, is that “the church” is so well established within they’re very lives for so many years that they have a hard time letting go. My boss for example drinks whiskey every night and is unapologetic, a proud red neck! But when faced with the gospel, he just had one question for me: if I repent and my mom and dad don’t, what will happen to them. When I told him, with tremendous sorrow that they would go to hell, he then said that he wouldn’t accept that and he wasn’t interested. That is a typical thought for many here. So much so that even drunk and stoned and sexually sated, they still will accept Mormonism over truth, never understanding or seeing their absence of logic! In Utah we are almost always witnessing to Mormons, practicing or not, wherever we are. Evangelicals are less than 2% of the population. I would not guess very many more than that are saved and captive in whatever church they are attending. We should be sensitive to that fact.
Finally, as for you comment about leaving God the power to judge someones ministry, did it occur to you maybe he has?
I believe God has passed judgment on this attempt at ministering in His name. Sometimes we don’t see how God interacts with us. I hear a lot of people say, “God just doesn’t answer my prayers.” I say God answers all prayers. Sometimes he says no to our requests. In this case I believe He said no to an ill advised attempt at ministry. It isn’t the end of the road. Listen to Him and follow His leading to the next ministry opportunity. He will guide you if you listen. Sometimes drastic and extreme measures are required but not always. Don’t look for the extremes…just be willing to go there if He asks.
I am sorry many of you took offense to my first post. In re-reading it I can see I had an edge and should have taken some time before writing. I think Mark saw my heart and hope others can see I am not a legalist…not by far. I just think this ministry attempt was ill advised biblically. As Mark posted earlier, “We are to enter those places as different from the sick, lost, and hurt of this world. We are to show ourselves as separate from the world: “Be holy, because I am holy.” How can we argue for Jesus as Truth, Life and The Way, when they think they see us acting hypocritically?” I believe that wholeheartedly.
Hey all…love the interaction. I guess I can give a quick response to the negatives:
1. How can something be “unholy” if Jesus did it? Are we better than He was when He changed water into wine at a party?
2. Come on out if you are in the area. Not sure how you can open the Words of God [we are studying the book of John] and not see the conviction of sin, salvation, etc. Wowsers…
3. I personally have drank as much or more H2O than beer…not a huge fan of alcohol for many reasons. But dang…there is a 2 beer limit and we just added the first person to our church who would never have done that had it not been for this ministry.
So we praise God for using this, and not us. And BTW…this is not “extreme”. Jesus modeled it for us.
Great stuff all! We have struggled with it just as you are right now. I pray your struggles might lead you to come to terms with the radical nature of Jesus, and not our legalistic standards [that I subscribed to for years myself;]
Hey all…love the interaction. I guess I can give a quick reponse to the negatives:
1. How can something be “unholy” if Jesus did it? Are we better than He was when He changed water into wine at a party?
2. Come on out if you are in the area. Not sure how you can open the Words of God [we are studying the book of John] and not see the conviction of sin, salvation, etc. Wowsers…
3. I personally have drank as much or more H2O than beer…not a huge fan of alcohol for many reasons. But dang…there is a 2 beer limit and we just added the first person to our church who would never have done that had it not been for this ministry.
So we praise God for using this, and not us. And BTW…this is not “extreme”. Jesus modeled it for us.
Great stuff all! We have struggled with it just as you are right now. I pray your struggles might lead you to come to terms with the radical nature of Jesus, and not our legalistic standards [that I subscribed to for years myself;]
I’m sorry, but I cannot agree with Nathan & Mark on this subject. While I will say that some places do have “house rules” that may be put into place to protect those who would stumble with such a ministry as described here, that doesn’t seem to be the case here.
Jesus did indeed drink. Everybody drank some amount of alcohol in that day, for it was the only way to preserve many juices. Some of us choose to avoid alcohol for a variety of reasons. That’s OK, as long as we recognize it’s a choice, not a Godly mandate.
There are churches, congregations, and Christians who would be affected negatively. In that case, as Paul noted about eating meat offered to idols, it’s better to refrain. In fact, I would refer Nathan and Mark, and everyone else, to the book of 1 Corinthians on this subject, substituting “having half a beer” (or a 3.2 beer, whatever that is) for “eating meat offered to idols.”
I do not believe the organization responded to this Biblically at all, nor in any fashion that would relate to “good leadership practices.” They will need to answer to God on that.
Having said all that, let me try to encourage you, Charles, as well as your beautiful family (love Joi’s smile, especially considering my wife and cousin are both named Joy). You are better off without this organization. I do not know if you should continue the “Bible and Beer” thing or not; that’s between you and the Holy Spirit. I do believe this was an indication that you need to part company with your former funders 100%, if you have not done so already (excluding the termination buffer … and shame on them for trying to renege on that part of the deal!). In spite of the standard warning against “naming names,” I would carefully consider naming the organization who did this to you, at least to those considering partnering with them, as a warning to stay as far away from them as possible! Obviously you must be careful here, as I suspect they would jump on the chance of a libel or slander suit. In any case, brush the dust off your feet and persevere. As another victim of church sin, married to another one, I’ll be praying for you, my brother.
Oh, and consider coffee next time, unless you find that as gross as I do.
I think it is interesting that these comments are so focused on beer. In reality the most alarming part of this story has nothing to do with drinking. It is the worldly and disGRACEful way that Christians deal with conflict. We are called to be ministers of reconciliation with clear instructions about what we are to do if we feel someone has wronged us or made a bad decision. Obviously, I am only familiar with one side of this story, but it seems that to pull funding from a ministry that you had supported in such a strong way without discussion or an attempt to reconcile is missing the mark in a pretty serious way. If you take the time to read this, take the time to think about the way you deal with conflict – and ask yourself, is it holy?
Melanie, you bring up a good point about the focus being on the alcohol. If chazzdaddy were getting smashed in there while witnessing, would the “organization” be more justified in their actions? How about if it were a topless bar?
For some reason alcohol is a divisive issue in “the church,” just as idol-offered meat was in Paul’s time. (For that matter, eating meat at all can be equally divisive today.)
There is a Biblical pattern for dealing with issues. Charles’ funders did not exhibit that pattern. While my initial questions remain, as far as this story goes, my earlier comment stands.
Joe: @chazdaddy might not name them, but I will. Baptists. That’s all you need to know. The very same organization that has been taking the fun out of anything and everything since…
…Jesus used Welch’s grape juice and saltine crackers at the Last Supper
…John the Baptist founded the Southern Baptist Convention
…The Galatians wrote back to the Apostle Paul to say, “We’ve never done it this way before.”
Same old stuff, different day. Sorry I was so late to the party. And good luck with your new outreach Charles.
You hit the nail on the head – Satan is mad that you’re in his territory (also, no offense to LDSers for whom I have a great deal of respect). I’m praying for your protection, both financial and spiritual. God is stronger than everything you’re dealing with and He WILL win.
Perhaps God is using this “circumstance” to break you free from the bondage of depending on the funds provided to this “ministry” so He can use you in an even greater way. Remember Joseph. He acknowledged that his brothers meant what they did for evil but GOD meant it for good. He simply didn’t see it at the time.
[...] I got to talk with Charles briefly at Exponential last week. He was truly discouraged, but knows that God is up to something. Take a moment to read his response here. [...]