Have you ever been hurt, walked on, misunderstood, wounded, offended or felt good-old-fashioned JUDGED by the church? Maybe you have even felt this way at NEW HOPE. I pray not. But you have. If not, you will.
Many of you have felt this way in your experience throughout your “church life” whether old or new to the faith.
I know I have. In my past and current “church” experience. As a matter of fact, it happens frequently via a “Godly, Biblical” e-mail or blog comment. Pastors are wounded as much or more than any others I know. Grow thick skin? Run away? Stop fighting? Maybe this will help. Pray for those who are your pastors and leaders, they need it more than you might understand.
And pray for those who I meet all the time who have been “wounded and hurt” by the church, that they will come back to the source of all love. God himself! And He laid His life down for an IMPERFECT bride, His Church.
Here is a great message by my friend JUD WILHITE from CENTRAL CHRISTIAN CHURCH in Las Vegas baby…that will bring healing and sweet water to your soul.
Judged Message 10/19/2008 from David Tate on Vimeo.
And don’t miss this weekend at NEW HOPE where I and our team will be on trial answering your MARRIAGE/RELATIONSHIP/SEX questions. They will be LIVE and unfiltered! Come ready to ask your questions that have been raised during this series. Can’t wait to see what will happen and what we will LEARN and how I will be STRETCHED as well!
Don’t forget SATURDAY NIGHT to set the clocks back an hour!
blessings and peace.
Because someone has a difference of opinion or concerns on a subject you’ve raised in a blog doesn’t mean you are being judged.
Great point! Of course not. Our staff team and Elder board disagree all the time. It is healthy, just and a Godly path toward discerning God’s will. When we walk out though, we have each others backs in love and unity.But there are many comments, letters, etc. that come in that are vicious, rude and because they are things brought up not in love, and not even in truth, it is an attack. (Not to mention whether anonymous or not, when someone makes a public comment that is not true and not in the form of a question, then it is gossip.)Those comments I choose not to publish.For instance: someone was writing about the churches (everywhere and ours) budget crisis and by what “they understood” (they obviously hadn’t talked to anyone in leadership) that why would we buy a new sound board when the old one was fine?The truth behind that (and this is one of several mistruths that have floated)is that I was one of the team against new boards. It was a battle for our team to decide. Not for $$ sake. Get to that in a minute. But for ease of training new volunteers was my argument. But I am NOT in charge of programming/technology. Several others are. They still desired them for many other reasons, multi-site campus ministry being a big one and the audio quality.They devised a plan to sell the old boards and replace them with BETTER boards that use way less space and do 100 times more and to break even or MAKE money.Still goes back to the volunteer issue that I for one didn’t like, but they convinced (each other, not really me, since I am not the one doing it) to go for it. Better boards, same money? I have no issue. But that is not what the comment said. Not even close. Not even a question. Spreading a half-truth even in the form of a question is still 100% un-truth.That is just one example of many things that I am sure EVERYONE faces inside and outside of the church. And when you are not just disagreed with, but mis-truths are published (and not wanting nor having the time to carry out a defense of anything) then it hurts. It hurts because people don’t do the biblical thing and talk to the person or leader involved.When people have an issue with one another at a church or anywhere, the Bible commands us to go to them in love and ask about it. Not assume a half-truth with it. Ask. Anonymous letters and blog comments that attack or have falsehood directly aimed at an author/person/church/organization is wrong.Disagreement in love is healthy.I am referring to things in the past that have just been way out of line and a blog is not a place to discuss or correct or hear the change that someone is suggesting.That is to be done privately. Discussion that honors God can be done publicly. Big difference.Many people (not just pastors or leaders) are the victim of being “hurt by the church.” Pastors are some of the most beat up people on earth. And so are some church attendees. We all live in a fallen world. May this teaching help us all!Great comment. Thank you!
chazzdaddy wrote:”Spreading a half-truth even in the form of a question is still 100% un-truth.”tom’s comment:Not sure how it can be 100% un-truth and half truth at the same time?chazzdaddy wrote:”It hurts because people don’t do the biblical thing and talk to the person or leader involved.”tom’s comment:But your blog entries were asking for feedback and dialogue which is what I’ve seen bloggers give. Why not address these concerns or opinions and let the readers decide?chazzdaddy wrote:”I am referring to things in the past that have just been way out of line and a blog is not a place to discuss or correct or hear the change that someone is suggesting.That is to be done privately. Discussion that honors God can be done publicly. Big difference.”tom’s comment:Actually the definition of a BLOG is – The ability for readers to leave comments in an interactive format. So in other words it should be a give and take in which the readers can weigh in and be part of the interactive format. Not sure why that shouldn’t be the case in your blog? Of course this is true with the church so many times as well. Any comment or feedback that questions the church is considered to be from Satan, when actually we should celebrate the discussion to refine us, and the half-truths (if they exsist) on either view will be exposed to the readers. When we open a forum for discussion we shouldn’t limit the input to only what we want people to read, that becomes almost communistic.chazzdaddy wrote:”Those comments I choose not to publish.”tom’s comment:I’ve noticed sometimes they are published with responses then erased.
Great conversation. I have posted responses before to things that were out of line and was advised by wiser counsel to not battle or defend in public.When it is a response to a question and not the person or their character, that is one thing.Since it is my personal blog and not wanting to spend a ton of time defending false things.The comments many times were not in response to the posts, but a forum for other opinions. When we stick to the topic as we are, this is healthy and good. And disagreement is not always seen as of Satan. As mentioned, it happens daily and I hope I am not satan nor my staff, my wife, or others =)When it is gossip. It is of Satan. How do I know it is gossip and not true? Because it was something I was a part of. A decision I was in on, etc.Great points, and well taken. When I have to go on the defense for things not related to a post, then I don’t see the need for that comment as many bloggers don’t do as well.That is not communism, it is trying to be wise and not choosing to be defensive. I am not without error either =)Blessings and peace!
chazzdaddy said:”The comments many times were not in response to the posts, but a forum for other opinions. When we stick to the topic as we are, this is healthy and good. “tom’s response:In the post I recall I believe the blogger was responsing to the subject matter of a post you had orginated. This blogger was questioning some decision at on how the church was spending the budget. chazzdaddy said:”And disagreement is not always seen as of Satan. As mentioned, it happens daily and I hope I am not satan nor my staff, my wife, or others =)”tom’s response:I agree but on a previous blog you had stated that a bloggers comments were gossip and sin, you also stated “this is how Satan wins”, then later all these comments were removed from the blog. That is why I stated what I did in the previous comment.chazzdaddy said:”When it is gossip. It is of Satan. How do I know it is gossip and not true? Because it was something I was a part of. A decision I was in on, etc”tom’s response:I had read the christfollowers comments on a previous post and didn’t find them to be gossip, nor sin. Just someone who had questions and concerns regarding some previous budget decisions at church. I’m not doubting that you had reasons to disagree with the blogger. I just thought you should have given those reasons rather than call it gossip and sin and then ultimately erase all comments.
i guess we will have to agree to disagree!but it would be like me saying something about someone on my blog post when i haven’t talked to them or anyone else.if i comment on someone and their actions, i pray that first i am informed. i would talk to them first, not just post false things anonymously. they could have at least been good false things =)maybe that would have changed my mind! just kidding.it was evident that they had not spoken to anyone and when i commented back another staff person said to not defend anything, so i just took it all off.mistake maybe. but now it is in blogger purgatory.i have no issues with great conversation…i am way beyond thinking i have it all together. way beyond that.that is why we have a great staff team and group of elder’s who help make decisions, not me alone! i am one vote amongst many.blessings!
So why were these comments removed from the blog on another post then?I don’t doubt the New Hope has a positive impact on the community but there are some concerns that may deserve to be questioned.I seriously doubt the church would give $3,000 a week away to the poor, hungry and oppressed. I’m pretty sure it would go towards another multi-site, large movie screen or next building project you were “called” to build. I’m pretty confident the poor, hungry and oppressed would get the leftovers not the main course. It is common in churches today, we do all we do in the Lord’s name because he has “called” us to do these things. How does anyone substantiate such grandiose faith-claims?I once heard Walter Brueggemann say ” Taking the Lord’s name in vain is not about using fowl language, it is about adding God’s support to our projects. But because God is holy we are not permitted to equate any of our debt projects to God’s holiness no matter how noble they are.” I’m sure it was tongue in cheek but it was also a subtle reminder to all.
I thought those comments were just great conversation but then all at once they were gone?
My momma always said that a half truth is a whole lie. I guess I read what chazzdaddy said that way, but that’s me. I guess if I wanted to pick apart his statement, instead of accepting a figure of speech, I could’ve. Um, I think gossip can be fact or fiction. I guess it depends on why someone says it. If the intent was to make someone or the church look bad, that’d be gossiping. Plus, if the church really did make money or break even on the sound board thing, then saying it was a waste of money or bad judgment (can’t remember the original comment 100%) probably would seem like gossip, or slanderous at least. That’s just my opinion. Also, if I had any real concerns, I like to think I would do research by talking to those that know, but you never know. Confronting a leader is kind of scary sometimes. Maybe that’s why the previous person(s) didn’t go that route. I don’t know. I can’t ask them. They’d have to chime in again and say why they’d take that course instead of what the Bible says to do. I think a blog is a good forum for discussion, but if I ran one and got negative comments, I don’t think I’d post them. No reason other than I wouldn’t want to see it or have others see it. Bad attitudes are contagious.So down to the end, where it talks about how the church would spend the money, I guess I don’t care. The church leaders know more than I do. If God tells them to start a campus in Columbus, but He doesn’t tell me that He’s going to tell them that, I’m not going to jump on it. People are getting saved at all of the new hope campuses, so I think God’s behind it and happy about it. And I know that part of this comes from my Republican upbringing, but I don’t think it’s the church’s job to take care of all the poor people. I think the onus lies on the family to some extent. A lot of underprivilged people in America are in that condition on their own. There are a lot of opportunities here. That’s not true in all cases, of course, but a lot of the people that want to be helped really want to be carried. The poor people in Jesus’ day were widows, orphans, and cripples. They had no way within their society to make it on their own. In our economy, if someone gets laid off, and needs help, that’s fine. But to live the rest of your life with your hand out expecting the church to fill it is lazy. You can choose to not publish the comment if you think that will offend people, but that’s what I think. The bottom line is that God told me to give. He did not say to give if I’m happy. It’s my job to give. God will hold me accountable on that. It’s the pastor(s) job to use themoney wisely. He will judge them on that. If I don’t like how you guys spend the money, I can always go to another church. But as long as those people keep getting saved, I’ll keep supporting the cause. Thank you. Sorry my response is really long. There’s a lot to reply to on this page.
I was a PK (pastor’s kid) growing up, and I saw first hand the pains that “Christian people” can cause in a family. Yes, it also hurts the entire pastor’s family. I have been hurt by a church. In fact, one of my dad’s former churches ran me out of ministry at the time (God always seems to have a way to bring you back in). I did not want any part of it, if that is what ministry looked like consider me gone. But, being used by God is all I ever wanted. To see people’s lives change, is an awesome sight. But, it is when one or two, or sometimes more fellow “Christian’s” feel they need to try to break down a Pastor’s desire to serve THEM, makes me sick. I mean didn’t their mothers ever teach them, “If you don’t have anything nice to say, then keep your big, fat mouth SHUT!”
Jennifer said:”If the intent was to make someone or the church look bad, that’d be gossiping”Tom’s response:I view Gossip as talking behind someone’s back without their knowledge. The Blog format makes it very hard to label a comment as Gossip. This is for two reasons, the blogger is invited by the Blog Host to give input on a particular subject and the comments are seen and visible to the one doing the inviting. How is this Gossip? It can be disputed and untruths can be addressed but it’s not being done behind anyones back, it’s out for all to discuss.Jennifer said:”Confronting a leader is kind of scary sometimes. Maybe that’s why the previous person(s) didn’t go that route. “Tom’s response:I agree with you, completely. It causes one to never voice their concerns or questions.Jennifer said:”but I don’t think it’s the church’s job to take care of all the poor people.”Tom’s response:Wow, I couldn’t disagree more. There’s 2103 verses on the poor and oppressed. This is how Jesus began his first sermon: ‘I’ve been anointed to preach the good news to the poor.’ God is with the poor; we’re with God when we’re with the poor. Bono from U2 said it well…. “I mean, God may well be with us in our mansions on the hill… I hope so. He may well be with us as in all manner of controversial stuff… maybe, maybe not… But the one thing we can all agree, all faiths and ideologies, is that God is with the vulnerable and poor. God is in the slums, in the cardboard boxes where the poor play house… God is in the silence of a mother who has infected her child with a virus that will end both their lives… God is in the cries heard under the rubble of war… God is in the debris of wasted opportunity and lives, and God is with us if we are with them. “As you have done it unto the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me.’ (Matthew 25:40).”When the church is working right, it is the church’s job to take care of the poor. Not only in our own country but the world.
loved the message. Now that I know what that shirt means, it’s time to get one. Maybe I’ll get the pink one?Shoot, I’ve had my butt kicked by “the church,” or at least by someone representing the church. You know the story. I’m glad I landed at NH. I’m glad to be a part of this. Yeah, we’ve got dissenters, gossips, and yes, those that judge – inside and outside of the blog world, as well as inside and outside of the church. I don’t mind too much, though. Hebrews 13:17 says that we(pastors) will give an account TO GOD for how we did as pastors. I’m a lot more worried about that assessment than I am someone else’s, particularly someone that doesn’t know all of the facts behind decisions made.Thanks for having me at NH. I hope no one thinks that was a waste of money.
Keep your chin up, ol’ chap. And remember to cheer up, Charlie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95P1P6t9dAw)!
Shoot! I didn’t refresh and see all the comments before I posted. Tom, do you believe that if a person decides to be poor by deciding to be lazy, the church should cover him? If someone refuses to get a job, should the church or government intervene? If all the church’s and governments resources continue to go to those who CAN take care of themselves, but choose not to, what happens to those that CANNOT do it on their own? I agree to take care of the poor (anyone that reads the Bible can see that), but the Bible also says that if a man doesn’t work, he shouldn’t eat (2 Thessalonians 3:10). Interestingly enough, the next verse talks about busybodies I’m not calling you that, Tom. I just thought it was funny that when I looked up the verse on working, I saw another one that related to gossips, or as my Jewish mom would say, “kibitzers.”
Thought that might be a good one to throw in, since we were talking about those guys, too!
ok…this is getting long and crazy. thank you for the kind comments on my behalf and the conversation that i am truly learning through.i am to shepherd and am not always right in my assessment to publish or start comments wars which i have seen all over the place.this is for conversation, so as long as it is done in love and not personal…so be it.let’s continue to do BOTH! let’s win people to Christ and disciple them and let’s reach out with social justice in Jesus name. my assumption is that without huge resources, neither side will be happy.this Christmas we are going large for social justice and we currently have hundreds of bags of food to distribute to the poor.we have also had an initiative to Malawi and other African communities.i pray that we will all listen to the Lord and support both his and our churches calling that Godly leadership discerns (not just 1 lead pastor) and that we will also follow His leading in our lives.peace.
tom…all the comments to this string have been published. not sure where they are for you, but i can see and read them.and yes, this is great conversation.
chazzdaddy….What I asked was “So why were these comments removed from the blog on ANOTHER POST then?” I know all the comments were posted on THIS string but I was refer to another post where the comment on the the $3,000 being used to pay off the building fund was originally posted. (Winning Monopoly Pieces at McDonalds)
Jewda said:”if a person decides to be poor by deciding to be lazy, the church should cover him? “Tom’s response:Did Jesus ask us to decide who is really poor and in need and who isn’t? Why does it appear we are trying to find a reason not to address this issue? Not sure where you are going with the busybodies comment and relating it to gossip?While you look up the verses find some of the 2103 verses relating to the poor and oppressed. How do they compare to the number of verses found on deciphering who’s poor and who is not. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZFFxDcSfeA
I hauled a lot of anger at “church” around for a long time until I realized that I had made a fundamental error. Organizations using the name “church” are, generally speaking, modernist structures that exist to empower a group of men who use religion for self-empowerment, employment, social-control, and ego. In my field, we call this concept hegemony.The only explanation that makes sense to me is that we lost The Church centuries ago, before scientific rationalism and before the merging of government and religion in Europe. American’s didn’t want a state-church, but a bunch of religious people wanted a church-state: and that’s how we got “the american church ala 2008.” I am not a member of a church because I will not validate/authenticate these types of institutional structures. I come to NH (Ashland) because my personal experience thus far has been positive and because I want my daughter to learn about God. I took her to Walmart last week and we filled up one of the food bags for the church project. I talked to her about picking the best items for the bag, instead of generic brand products, because we were shopping for God and the poor people that he loves. I don’t know a thing about the leadership or the money at NH and I don’t care to. I have started putting money in the funky little red box, but that money is God’s and I figure if anybody screws up with his money that is his business and their problem. I think if you are going to enjoy attending an organization you ought to at least pay your share.”Church” can’t hurt anybody if you just don’t make too much of a commitment. Some of the comments on the blog are a little surprising. Charles–at least tell whoever might be mad about the Ashland set up that at least one guy shows up who wasn’t going anywhere before. And I don’t mean to offend by believing/saying that NH isn’t really a church; I just don’t think there really are any.BYW–the whole water-well thing for Christmas is deep (bad pun). I’m sick of Christmas and my wife and I are going to discuss not buying ANY Christmas presents for ANYBODY, and getting involved with the water well project. Howard
sarah…..Wow! “those people”?Matthew 25:40
tom : tell me laziness isn’t sin.
First, welcome hwalte57! I’m so glad you’ve started coming to NH. I hope we bless you. You ARE why being in Ashland is worth it.Tom, I don’t know what was confusing on my busybodies comment. I clearly stated that I thought it was interesting to see that verse when multiple comments (including your own) talked about gossip, and that verse addressed it. As for the 2,103 references on the poor overriding one verse, that is ridiculous. God wrote the entire Bible. If He said to feed the poor, but He said that a person that will not work should not be fed, I think that’s called setting parameters. I don’t get to throw it away for the sake of my argument, and He shouldn’t have to repeat Himself for me to take it seriously. There is a huge difference between the poor and oppressed and the poor and lazy.Although I do not know who you are, Tom, I know that you are not at the church working daily. If you were, you would know that people come in all the time asking for help with this or that, and we do help them. We don’t take the time to judge a person’s situation before we give them food or help them pay a bill, but if a situation were obviously being taken advantage of, it would be within Biblical guidelines to decline help. We are taking up food from individuals to give out (gave some out yesterday to a single mom in desperate need, by the way), and we do have a benevolence fund that anyone can give to. Whatever monies are given to that go directly to people in need.Also, there is much confusion about it being the church’s job, anyway. When the church had no one in need, it was not because the religious institution gave. It was because individuals sold what they had and gave to the poor. Christians were making extra sacrifices to help out the poor. It’s my job and your job to take care of needs we see, as we are the church. I have given to people that have approached me for help, and I have turned down others. I make the decision based on what feels right in my heart at that moment. Maybe I’m wrong when I choose not to, but only God knows for sure. When Sarah says we rarely give, it is that context she speaks of, because it was all too common in Jax. You couldn’t stop for gas w/o being approached, and if you are around long enough, you notice the same people asking you. I could go find at least 5 guys in Jax right now, asking for money, standing at the same spots they were when I moved there 4 years ago. Still asking for money, still turning down food (cause a big bag of food makes it harder for them to get money). I choose to give to whom I choose to give. You may choose to to give to whomever you would like, as well. I prefer to give through the church most the time. I find out through the church of specific family needs, including those outside the church, and that is where I like to give.This is already too long, and though I have much more to say, I will hold off. In the end, I fear we will never agree anyway. Shalom, my brothers!
Obviously the youth of the staff have much to learn yet based on their comments.
We all have much to learn Keith. I don’t think I’ve heard anyone on staff ever claim to have all the answers but I do know they all try their best to follow God’s will by praying, reading His word, and seeking wise council. Tom–you sound like an intelligent person and I’m glad you care enough to share your thoughts. However, I think the big picture is being missed here.NH can’t do everything for everyone,we can only do what we can do. If helping the poor and needy is where your heart is, then do something about it-not say negative things to others about not doing it. I started a ministry at the church to help people with the rising price of food because God layed it on my heart to do so. I didn’t just write to the church and ask them why they weren’t doing it.Take your passion and do something with it other than finding negatives to talk about. As far as the finances of the church, I agree with hwalte57. When I give to the church, it is God’s money. If the church leadership doesn’t use it properly, they are the ones who will have to answer for it. If I ever have a question about something going on at NH, Charles knows I have no problem coming to him and calling him out on it. I don’t talk about it on a public forum before I get the facts and even then I would hesitate to do so as to not be the cause of dissention in the church. God is working in NH or we wouldn’t be seeing the numbers of people we do that are coming to know our Savior and continuing to grow in Him as I am.Is NH perfect-NO! Is the staff perfect–NO! Are they going to make mistakes–YES! Are they doing the best they can to further God’s kingdom– I believe so. May God continue to bless NH and guide its leadership in all decisions! AMEN
AJ said:”If helping the poor and needy is where your heart is, then do something about it-not say negative things to others about not doing it.”Tom’s response:If you only knew where I stand when it comes to the poor, hungry and oppressed. Jesus’s heart was for the the poor, hungry and oppressed and I think as we journey through this Christian walk it will become more and more evident to all who may not see it now.ONE
Tom: It is evident where your heart stands and I say THANK YOU!We are doing the Advent Conspiracy…see previous post. We are collecting food this month (hundreds of bags already in)…We have put a well in Malawi, Africa, and do many other things to serve the poor.There is a fine line between buildings to house people (without them, we wouldn’t have grown to the size we are and able to do more socially), and being so social that we forget about the gospel and no one comes to Christ.We could do better in both areas, especially in the social justice area, but are learning.Thanks for your heart!And let’s all live out our calling and as a pastor here, I pray that we will be BALANCED in this approach.Off to rest after the service tonight!
wow… i’m kinda amazed at what i’ve read here. yes, i’ve been hurt by a couple of “churches” for most of my life. i grew up in a cult revolving around keeping laws (legallism) not love… i found Jesus in spite of all of that… or He found me and we are on my journey together… i think the definition of church for some is different than others… i believe that the church is believers or Christ followers collectively (worldwide) not a specific denomination or group. with that definition, i believe it IS the responsibility of the church to address the poor. i think we get into trouble when we start to draw lines in the sand and we decide who deserves the love of Jesus and who does not… i’ve read in the above comments about deciding who is lazy and who is poor and that we make decisions on whether or not to help out based on if we think a person deserves to be helped or not… i think that Jesus DOES want us to work… but sometimes people are paralized by the situations of their past that prevent them from doing for themselves and their loved ones the things that they ought to do. i pray that we have compassion for whomever God puts in our paths to help to give love even if it goes against everything we feel and have experienced… sometimes the thing that we ought to give is ourselves… not money or food… but out time… a kind word or a genuine interest in a total stranger… i’m saddened by the attacks i’ve read in this blog… i don’t like conversations that give opinions without real face to face personal interaction… it’s very easy to give an opinion and then walk away… it sounds like some of you are very passionate about what you stand for… i hope that we can ultimately make decisions based on the love that Jesus has for all of us… not just the causes that we stand for.
chazzdaddy…Thank you for your postive approach and response.BlessingsTomTo all…Read “Red Letter Christians” by Tony Campolo.
Tom, that is a good read. I’m sad over our current political situation. We need a strong third party that can get 5% (or is it 7%?)of the vote and become a legitimate threat to our two-party system. Most Christians will vote for whatever candidate is part of their party, regardless of Jesus issues. You can’t get everything you need from either party right now, and I think some moral convictions have to be surrendered to vote for either side. I should say that that is the case for me. I don’t know about anyone else.
all i have to say is wow. a lot of back and forth argument. but let me share some things. first i am happy to see scripture in here, (that never lies), but as long as we are talking about the poor. let me share a little. i got hurt fighting a fire. so i am on disability. i get 33% of what i would have made every two weeks. but i worked three jobs. now i have a car. that is all i own that is worth saying. but here is something money cant buy and that is a family. i have a beautiful wife and a little one on the way. (hopefully a girl!!) no i can not afford to have a kid right now but listen to this, when i had accepted Christ i was addicted to drugs and under deep depression. when i started to go to NH it all changed. i felt happier and had a better drug to take and that was Christ. my life changed, i say it was because of NH, but it was Christ who lead me there. in the position that i was in i began to serve. i started in KIA, and now not only am i running it but i am CALLED to children s ministry too. in KIA which stands for KINDNESS IN ACTION, we go out and help the community. by cleaning up the town to collecting food for the needy, plus other things. and God did CALL me to that. i also am involved in the third Friday meal. every third Friday we have a free meal open to everyone who wants it. so i guess what my point is that God did CALL me to the church. he is in charge of me life, i read His word and try my best to do everything i can for others,i call NH my family! the love for Christ is more than i have ever seen. yeah we may spend money. but what family doesn’t. yeah we might disagree but what family doesn’t. NH has helped change my life. that’s why i do what i do. i am happy to call NH my home!!!
Been hurt by at least two church’s now, including New Hope. I don’t see why we cannot hold Pastors and others ‘in the word’ to a higher standard. Disagreement is one thing, to hurt a volunteer (a hard working volunteer) for your own gain, that is another thing.
Dear Pearl:I too have been hurt numerous times by many churches including people at New Hope. I resonate with your statement.I pray that you will go to the person responsible and seek reconciliation from your hurts. Listen to this message posted and let it sit with your spirit.I daily work through hurt and pain both inside and outside the church. I wish the church were able to be pain free, but until we get to heaven, it won’t happen.I pray reconciliation and relief for whatever pain you suffered.
And to Pearl:I am extremely sorry.Blessings and love.
I met you at New Hope in Loudonville you are a good man. the most memorable moment with you was the fathers day service when you rode the Harley up on stage. You got off, and got the mic on, first thing you said “well cross that off of the list of things I want to do”. It just seems that people “in the word” are above admitting when they are wrong. The individual(s) in question know who they are and they know what they did, but in the tradition of “Christians” these days they are above apologizing. In all honesty I believe in God, but I am done with the church. If my wife wants to be apart of a church that is her business, I am done. I tried, I tried real hard with two churches in this area. The first I was with for two and a half years I did everything for them I was very involved. Then New Hope, it started out as a fantastic church. I probably should not have gotten involved so soon after the hell involved in the first. I did, I got hurt badly, I am done.
Pearl:As much as Jesus got beat down…He never gave up. He took your place and mine.I am glad He didn’t give up on me.The church and everyone will fail us (look at Peter)…but through their hurt, shame and pain, they went on to change the world.When someone hurts me…I have a choice. To go on because I serve Jesus, not man…or to serve myself by running away and not serving God when He has clearly called me to be obedient despite the trials.He kept on for me and for you. I pray that you will as well. When you work with ANYONE…it will be HELL. Because we all are sinners. But when we look at Christ, we don’t see anything but HIM. We are focused on HIM.That is the key. When I get knocked down…He picks me up, brushes me off and sends me back on the path. Until I get to glory, I have decided that I am willing to get knocked down for Him since He was willing to for me.He looked at the people who murdered HIM and said: FATHER, FORGIVE THEM, they don’t know what they do.I offend people all the time…and most of the time I never know it. Someone has to say it, and then we can be reconciled. I pray that this will be your path. If not…you will have a tough row to hoe because the world will knock us down time and time again and when we run from God…it makes the fall so much harder.blessings and love.
Pearl…Just know that unchurched doesn’t mean UNChristed. Seek him in everything, in every moment, of every day. I have been where you’re at and I understand. I too use to do the church routine and was very involved. I have asked God to lead my family and direct our hearts daily (depsite our lack of church involvement) and He has soooo answered that prayer. I would suggest reading “Velvet Elvis” – by Rob Bell. I too am instutionally challenged and it’s ok, because once I stepped off the treadmill of church, I found myself in a place where Jesus could penetrate my heart.Grace and Peace
Hey All! Sometimes the comments disappear. Not sure what the issue is.If they appear blank, click on add a comment. That brings then up the “back” way.Not sure what makes the glitch in it.blessings!
Hey Pearl,It’s ok that you’re “done” with church… My family and I are too, and we found that Jesus is speaking so clearly now that we’ve come out of the confusion. Don’t give up on that relationship with Him.
i think i will chime in here for a moment.i too have been hurt by church people who have the LOVE OF JESUS down DEEP IN THEIR SOULS.i didn’t give up.WHY?Christ LAID HIS LIFE DOWN FOR THE CHURCH he loved her so much.If He wanted us to not gather (no matter how imperfect that might be) He would have told us. [Do not forsake meeting together as the manner of some is, but encourage one another, and so much more as you see the day approaching! Hebrews 10.25]Why do I stay when WEEKLY I am bombarded with hurt? And I mean WEEKLY…Shoot, why stay in my marriage when my Wife hurts me or my kids?Because HE did. He fought till the end, and I figure if he can, then so can I.I can decide to make an impact, or hunker down because I want to avoid pain and hurt or I can march on and see amazing things like hundreds of bags of groceries delivered to several counties today.Hundreds of lives changed each year at an imperfect church. Glad Christ died for an imperfect guy like me…so glad he didn’t give up.On and on…I could never do that alone. That’s why Christ called us to do it together. No matter how imperfect, hurtful or messed up it is…I have always (whether in leadership or not, this is not my first church) given my all to HIS KINGDOM, and I have chosen to do that through a local church.And by the way…the church should be measured Monday-Saturday, not just on Sunday.HE DIED FOR HER. I will do the same if that is what I am called to do.The church is NOT it’s LEADERSHIP, it’s not just a person or a few people…it is the BODY AS A WHOLE, and we are called to continue together…to play hurt, to love hurt, to win hurt.Do I resonate, you bet I do. IF you want stories of hurt, just talk to any church leader, it’s not all roses and sunshine.Our team of men and women whom God has appointed are in it to win it. We don’t even agree many times and at times hurt each other because we could run and hide or do battle, and in battle you get hurt at times, but the victories are what keeps you coming back:)That’s my story.
Hi Pearl….Remember that one can define “gather” in many different ways (“whenever two or more of you are gathered in my name”). The Church has taken on such a strange definition in our modern culture, just turn on TBN if you question that. There is a Christianity that is based on the fact Jesus rose from the dead, instead of a Christianity that seems to come from Jesus still hanging on the cross.
Hi Pearl….Remember that one can define “gather” in many different ways (“whenever two or more of you are gathered in my name”). The Church has taken on such a strange definition in our modern culture, just turn on TBN if you question that. There is a Christianity that is based on the fact Jesus rose from the dead, instead of a Christianity that seemsto come from Jesus still hanging on the cross.
I do not believe in the “church” as it exists today. I believe in God and I feel that is what God wants. I am not pulled or pushed into anything. In fact I would say I am quite comfortable with my status. Church is way to political and unChristian for me.